[Left the Party]

Anybody paying attention to what's happening in Iceland?

Quote

...Iceland's financial meltdown isn't just a banking calamity - it is also destroying dreams and turning lives upside down across this once affluent nation.

Just last year, Iceland won the U.N.'s "best country to live in" poll, with its residents rated the most contented in the world. The stock market was booming, cash-rich companies helmed by youthful CEOs were on an acquisition spree across Europe, and Icelanders enjoyed one of the globe's highest per capita incomes.

No more. The global financial crisis has washed up hard on the shores of this volcanic island of 320,000 people, its decision to swap cod fishing for a complex debt-laden economy exacting a heavy toll.

For ordinary Icelanders, the biggest problem is that they were encouraged to upgrade to a more luxurious lifestyle by buying houses and cars that were financed by 100 percent loans based on a spread of foreign currencies....

http://www.lansingst...30360/1001/NEWS

Quote

Oct. 13 (Bloomberg) -- After a four-year spending spree, Icelanders are flooding the supermarkets one last time, stocking up on food as the collapse of the banking system threatens to cut the island off from imports...

Iceland's foreign currency market has seized up after the three largest banks collapsed and the government abandoned an attempt to peg the exchange rate. Many banks won't trade the krona and suppliers from abroad are demanding payment in advance. The government has asked banks to prioritize foreign currency transactions for essentials such as food, drugs and oil....

http://www.bloomberg...6...&refer=home

[Left the Party]

Quote

Icelandic Stocks Drop 77% as Trading Resumes After 3-Day Halt

By Jakob Lindstroem

Oct. 14 (Bloomberg) -- Iceland's benchmark stock index plunged 77 percent, the biggest decline on record, as trading resumed after a three-day suspension and the nationalization of the country's largest banks.

Investors demanded a higher premium to hold Icelandic government bonds, while the price of the country's currency remained ``undetermined,'' according to TD Securities.

The global financial crises sparked the collapse this month of Kaupthing Bank hf, Glitnir Bank hf and Landsbanki Islands hf with debts equivalent to as much as 12 times the size of Iceland's economy. The three banks accounted for about 76 percent of the OMX Iceland 15 Index's value prior to the nationalization...

http://www.bloomberg...id=a6_D.jvgUmFA

For the people out there with money to burn, this is actually a really good time to go to Iceland. It's about $400 to fly round trip out of Boston or NY to Iceland. I don't know if there will be any food available when you get there but it sure looks pretty. I guess you could pack a second suitcase full of food to cover your bases.

[CaptKirk]

Left the Party, on Oct 14 2008, 04:13 PM, said:

Quote

Icelandic Stocks Drop 77% as Trading Resumes After 3-Day Halt

By Jakob Lindstroem

Oct. 14 (Bloomberg) -- Iceland's benchmark stock index plunged 77 percent, the biggest decline on record, as trading resumed after a three-day suspension and the nationalization of the country's largest banks.

Investors demanded a higher premium to hold Icelandic government bonds, while the price of the country's currency remained ``undetermined,'' according to TD Securities.

The global financial crises sparked the collapse this month of Kaupthing Bank hf, Glitnir Bank hf and Landsbanki Islands hf with debts equivalent to as much as 12 times the size of Iceland's economy. The three banks accounted for about 76 percent of the OMX Iceland 15 Index's value prior to the nationalization...

http://www.bloomberg...id=a6_D.jvgUmFA

For the people out there with money to burn, this is actually a really good time to go to Iceland. It's about $400 to fly round trip out of Boston or NY to Iceland. I don't know if there will be any food available when you get there but it sure looks pretty. I guess you could pack a second suitcase full of food to cover your bases.

I hear they're considering auctioning off Bjork.

[Taboon]

Left the Party, on Oct 14 2008, 03:13 PM, said:

Quote

Icelandic Stocks Drop 77% as Trading Resumes After 3-Day Halt

By Jakob Lindstroem

Oct. 14 (Bloomberg) -- Iceland's benchmark stock index plunged 77 percent, the biggest decline on record, as trading resumed after a three-day suspension and the nationalization of the country's largest banks.

Investors demanded a higher premium to hold Icelandic government bonds, while the price of the country's currency remained ``undetermined,'' according to TD Securities.

The global financial crises sparked the collapse this month of Kaupthing Bank hf, Glitnir Bank hf and Landsbanki Islands hf with debts equivalent to as much as 12 times the size of Iceland's economy. The three banks accounted for about 76 percent of the OMX Iceland 15 Index's value prior to the nationalization...

http://www.bloomberg...id=a6_D.jvgUmFA

For the people out there with money to burn, this is actually a really good time to go to Iceland. It's about $400 to fly round trip out of Boston or NY to Iceland. I don't know if there will be any food available when you get there but it sure looks pretty. I guess you could pack a second suitcase full of food to cover your bases.

PB&J goes a long way.

[Zim]

Amazing - all this time they've been humming along just fine and dandy, and within 10 years of adopting a Right Wing American economic philosophy, their country collapses. Says a lot about the unfettered free market, laisse faire, trickle down theory, don't it?

Lisa

[Theravenseldon]

Zim, on Oct 23 2008, 10:09 AM, said:

Amazing - all this time they've been humming along just fine and dandy, and within 10 years of adopting a Right Wing American economic philosophy, their country collapses. Says a lot about the unfettered free market, laisse faire, trickle down theory, don't it?

Lisa

Capitilism isn't (and never has been) a straight line. It goes up and down, but its more up then down.

[Zim]

Theravenseldon, on Oct 23 2008, 03:37 PM, said:

Zim, on Oct 23 2008, 10:09 AM, said:

Amazing - all this time they've been humming along just fine and dandy, and within 10 years of adopting a Right Wing American economic philosophy, their country collapses. Says a lot about the unfettered free market, laisse faire, trickle down theory, don't it?

Lisa

Capitilism isn't (and never has been) a straight line. It goes up and down, but its more up then down.

Unfettered, unregulated, laisse faire, trickle down is one form of capitalism. Capitalism was rolling along just fine and dandy until the patients took over the asylum. It's the current free for all capitalism embraced and pushed by Republicans for the past few decades that's the problem here, not capitalism, in general.

Lisa

[Theravenseldon]

Zim, on Oct 23 2008, 03:45 PM, said:

Theravenseldon, on Oct 23 2008, 03:37 PM, said:

Zim, on Oct 23 2008, 10:09 AM, said:

Amazing - all this time they've been humming along just fine and dandy, and within 10 years of adopting a Right Wing American economic philosophy, their country collapses. Says a lot about the unfettered free market, laisse faire, trickle down theory, don't it?

Lisa

Capitilism isn't (and never has been) a straight line. It goes up and down, but its more up then down.

Unfettered, unregulated, laisse faire, trickle down is one form of capitalism. Capitalism was rolling along just fine and dandy until the patients took over the asylum. It's the current free for all capitalism embraced and pushed by Republicans for the past few decades that's the problem here, not capitalism, in general.

Lisa

I don't think any sane free marketer would look at the present system and call it a "free market". There is a lot of socialistic elements, what was done was that they removed the regulations, but kept a lot of the other interventionist aspects in. As a result people could do crazy stuff and then expect a bail out.

That is the problem.

[torremalku]

Quote

I don't think any sane free marketer would look at the present system and call it a "free market". There is a lot of socialistic elements, what was done was that they removed the regulations, but kept a lot of the other interventionist aspects in. As a result people could do crazy stuff and then expect a bail out.

That is the problem.

Financially, we will be in the same boat as Iceland soon enough.

[CaptKirk]

torremalku, on Oct 23 2008, 05:57 PM, said:

Quote

I don't think any sane free marketer would look at the present system and call it a "free market". There is a lot of socialistic elements, what was done was that they removed the regulations, but kept a lot of the other interventionist aspects in. As a result people could do crazy stuff and then expect a bail out.

That is the problem.

Financially, we will be in the same boat as Iceland soon enough.

Good. Some damn fine boats have come out of Iceland.

[torremalku]

CaptKirk, on Oct 23 2008, 06:06 PM, said:

torremalku, on Oct 23 2008, 05:57 PM, said:

Quote

I don't think any sane free marketer would look at the present system and call it a "free market". There is a lot of socialistic elements, what was done was that they removed the regulations, but kept a lot of the other interventionist aspects in. As a result people could do crazy stuff and then expect a bail out.

That is the problem.

Financially, we will be in the same boat as Iceland soon enough.

Good. Some damn fine boats have come out of Iceland.

I think the first viking longboats sailed from Scandinavia to Iceland.

[chronosfirex2000]

Zim, on Oct 23 2008, 07:09 AM, said:

Amazing - all this time they've been humming along just fine and dandy, and within 10 years of adopting a Right Wing American economic philosophy, their country collapses. Says a lot about the unfettered free market, laisse faire, trickle down theory, don't it?

Lisa

Zim, take this any way you wish...

From wiki

"The economy of Iceland is small but well-developed, with a gross domestic product estimated at US $ 12.172 billion (132nd of 227 countries) in 2005 (and a per capita GDP of $40,277, which is among the world's highest).[1]

In 1990s, Iceland commenced extensive free market reforms and growth has been strong. Iceland has a mixed economy with high levels of free trade and government intervention. However, government consumption is less than in other Nordic countries. Today, Iceland has some of the world's highest levels of economic freedoms[2] as well as civil freedoms. As of 2007, Iceland is the most developed country in the world, according to the Human Development Index[3] and one of the most egalitarian, according to the calculation provided by the Gini coefficient.[4] It is also the fourth most productive country per capita."

So...


Iceland has a mixed economy (not capitalism, just part capitalism)

High levels of free trade

High levels of government intervention

Some of the worlds highest levels of economic freedoms/civil freedoms

Most developed country in the world.

One of the most egalitarian countries in the world.

Fourth most productive country per capita.



Now are you going to still claim that Iceland is the beacon of economic capitalism? If so, most of what was stated above is very positive. Most developed country, high civil freedoms, one of the most egalitarian countries...

[ScottLee]

The USA also has a mixed economy. Anybody who thinks we are 100% pure capitalist (espcially after the guhbmint bailout) needs to be resuscitated.

This post has been edited by ScottLee: 23 October 2008 - 07:11 PM

[chronosfirex2000]

ScottLee, on Oct 23 2008, 05:11 PM, said:

The USA also has a mixed economy. Anybody who thinks we are 100% pure capitalist (espcially after the guhbmint bailout) needs to be resuscitated.

I could't agree more.

That is why I find it laughable when people blame pure "unfettered" capitalism on this current crisis.

Every time I connect the dots it seems government intervention, specifically monetary policies and regulations, have created this mess.


Some claim that mortgages and other loans were deregulated yet they never argue that interest rates were not, and never are, set at market value.

[Zim]

chronosfirex2000, on Oct 24 2008, 06:15 AM, said:

ScottLee, on Oct 23 2008, 05:11 PM, said:

The USA also has a mixed economy. Anybody who thinks we are 100% pure capitalist (espcially after the guhbmint bailout) needs to be resuscitated.

I could't agree more.

That is why I find it laughable when people blame pure "unfettered" capitalism on this current crisis.

Every time I connect the dots it seems government intervention, specifically monetary policies and regulations, have created this mess.


Some claim that mortgages and other loans were deregulated yet they never argue that interest rates were not, and never are, set at market value.

But the interest rates were "manipulated" by the government to help keep the gravy train rolling and that is because the corporations are running the government. The problem is that government intervention took place only to help business reap more profit and not to prevent abuse. So I feel, you guys are misrepresenting what the purpose of what little governmental intervention that did take place, was for. With both sides manipulating things to their own advantage, because both sides have actually become the same side, greed and the ease of creating massive wealth out of virtual thin air became the norm.

We need to get rid of the government for the corporation and get back to the government of the people. One side can't thrive without the other if we haven't noticed.

Lisa

[chronosfirex2000]

Zim, on Oct 24 2008, 07:01 AM, said:

chronosfirex2000, on Oct 24 2008, 06:15 AM, said:

ScottLee, on Oct 23 2008, 05:11 PM, said:

The USA also has a mixed economy. Anybody who thinks we are 100% pure capitalist (espcially after the guhbmint bailout) needs to be resuscitated.

I could't agree more.

That is why I find it laughable when people blame pure "unfettered" capitalism on this current crisis.

Every time I connect the dots it seems government intervention, specifically monetary policies and regulations, have created this mess.


Some claim that mortgages and other loans were deregulated yet they never argue that interest rates were not, and never are, set at market value.

But the interest rates were "manipulated" by the government to help keep the gravy train rolling and that is because the corporations are running the government. The problem is that government intervention took place only to help business reap more profit and not to prevent abuse. So I feel, you guys are misrepresenting what the purpose of what little governmental intervention that did take place, was for. With both sides manipulating things to their own advantage, because both sides have actually become the same side, greed and the ease of creating massive wealth out of virtual thin air became the norm.

We need to get rid of the government for the corporation and get back to the government of the people. One side can't thrive without the other if we haven't noticed.

Lisa

I agree.

We need to get rid of the Federal Reserve. Too much regulation.... (regulation can work very much in the favor of business and not the people)

[Left the Party]

Quote

I hear they're considering auctioning off Bjork.

Quote

...And then the economic crisis hit. Young families are threatened with losing their houses and elderly people their pensions. This is catastrophic. There is also a lot of anger. The six biggest venture capitalists in Iceland are being booed in public places and on TV and radio shows; furious voices insist that they sell all their belongings and give the proceeds to the nation. Gigantic loans, it has been revealed, were taken out abroad by a few individuals and without the full knowledge of the Icelandic people. Now the nation seems to be responsible for having to pay them back...

Bjork



Letter from Iceland

This post has been edited by Left the Party: 15 November 2008 - 03:36 PM

[Mark]

chronosfirex2000, on Oct 24 2008, 04:15 AM, said:

ScottLee, on Oct 23 2008, 05:11 PM, said:

The USA also has a mixed economy. Anybody who thinks we are 100% pure capitalist (espcially after the guhbmint bailout) needs to be resuscitated.

I could't agree more.

That is why I find it laughable when people blame pure "unfettered" capitalism on this current crisis.

Every time I connect the dots it seems government intervention, specifically monetary policies and regulations, have created this mess.


Some claim that mortgages and other loans were deregulated yet they never argue that interest rates were not, and never are, set at market value.

Hey Chrono: Correct. Artificially low interest rates fueled the housing crisis. The government(thru the Federal Reserve) set the interest rates, that caused an overheated market. Easy credit and a low surplus of available housing caused housing values to soar.

Then the bubble popped. A strong argument could be made that government tinkering with the economy has caused this problem. Without government involvement, IT WOULD NOT HAVE HAPPENED.

Mark

[Left the Party]

Quote

Icelanders rally to protest economic meltdown

AP foreign, Monday December 1 2008

By JILL LAWLESS

Associated Press Writer= REYKJAVIK, Iceland (AP) - Thousands of Icelanders marked the 90th anniversary of their nation's sovereignty with angry protest Monday, and several hundred stormed the central bank to demand the ouster of bankers they blame for the country's spectacular economic meltdown...

http://www.guardian....article/8107617

[torremalku]

Left the Party, on Dec 3 2008, 04:35 PM, said:

Quote

Icelanders rally to protest economic meltdown

AP foreign, Monday December 1 2008

By JILL LAWLESS

Associated Press Writer= REYKJAVIK, Iceland (AP) - Thousands of Icelanders marked the 90th anniversary of their nation's sovereignty with angry protest Monday, and several hundred stormed the central bank to demand the ouster of bankers they blame for the country's spectacular economic meltdown...

http://www.guardian....article/8107617

In the U.S., the "civil unrest" is expected and well prepared for.